The Second & Third Prophecies of Neleneus the Savant



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    Second Prophesy of Neleneus the Savant

    Ye shall know the Signs of the Coming of the Second End.
    They shall be plague, violence, and treachery.
    The Traitors shall be guided as the Hidden were before them.
    The Traitors shall not, however, fail as the Hidden.
    Look ye, then, for the Omens Five, Proof of the End of the Age.
    Sons shall slay fathers, in a game of Power. So is the first Omen.
    The Seas shall rise, and the Dead shall walk. This is the second Omen.
    A Stranger shall come, and with him Nightmares. This is the third Omen.
    The Hidden joining the Traitors, to overcome the Master. This is the fourth Omen.
    That which was sundered to four shall be joined, Opener of Ways. This is the fifth Omen.
    Against these five Omens, none can stand.
    And so shall pass the Age of the Unifier.

    Okay, I got both the Second and the Third Prophecies. I had very little idea of what they were talking about, so I asked Selax, who is a virtual scholar on the books of Cythera :) since he has read every book in the game and doesn't forget any of them. He formulated this guess, and he wanted me to be sure to clarify that it was only a guess:

    House Comana shall be guided as the Undine were before them.
    Comana shall not, however, fail as the Undine.
    Look ye, then, for the Five Omens that signify the end of the Second Age.
    Sons of Comana shall slay their fathers, so that they may rule the House. 1st Omen
    The Undine shall rise, and don't know on this one, but it could be relation into all the Dead that are alive in places like the Strongholds. 2nd
    The main character, you, shall come, and you bring the dreams to those two children in the game. 3rd
    The Undine will join with House Comana to overcome Alaric. 4th
    The Crolna shall be joined, Opener of Ways. 5th
    So passes the Age of Alaric, the Second Age.

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    Third Prophesy of Neleneus the Savant

    And in the End of the Second Age, the Great Unifier shall pass.
    Upon this leaving, shall chaos and disaster come.
    Land and Sea shall part, the middle can not hold.
    Air and Fire shall wreack havoc, and Night shall fall.
    From the Night to the Next Dawn, what was One shall become Many.
    The Bird of Two will bemoan his fate, and that of the Third.
    The World shall be sundered before the Coming of the Dawn.
    And shattered shall it be ever after.
    The void shall not keep the parts of the Whole.
    For the powers of the Four Directions shall form a Fifth.
    The Four parts of the Opener of Ways, Made One.
    This shall be the Key to the Fifth Element.
    Those that walk the Fifth Element will bring the Dawn.
    And from those Walkers will be brought a New Order.
    Only the Walkers of the New Order shall have the Unified Power.
    And those of the Four Directions shall be at their mercy.

    Possible translation:
    In the End of the Second Age, Alaric will die.
    Chaos and disaster will come as a result.
    Not sure about this line*
    The Ur'Sylph and Ignae shall wreak havoc, and not sure here either
    From what is unsure1 to another unsure2, what was unsure3 shall become unsure4.
    Magpie will bemoan his fate, and the fate of his son, Alaric.
    Cythera will be sundered before unsure2.
    And will for ever after be shattered.
    The void shall not keep the parts of the Unsure 5.
    For the powers of the Four Elements shall form Mankind.**
    The four shards of the Crolna, being made one; this is key to Mankind.
    Men will bring the Dawn, which is still Unsure2.
    And from Men shall rise a new order.
    Men shall have the power of all Four Elements.
    And the four elements will be weaker than mankind, and thus at their mercy.

    *It would seem obvious that Land and Sea is of course in reference to the Seldane and the Undine, but they were never jioned so that they could part. "The middle" is also unknown.

    **The reason that we thought that mankind is the fifth element is because the Cypher Manuscript calls man that.



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    House Comana shall be guided as the Undine were before them.

    The hidden in this line could also refer to the Cult of Scylla, as the Undine presumably guided both.

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    *It would seem obvious that Land and Sea is of course in reference to the Seldane and the Undine, but they were never jioned so that they could part. "The middle" is also unknown.

    "The middle" in all likelihood refers to the balance. Perhaps, the parting refers to loss of balance again?



  • I would say that "the Dead shall walk" is a dead-on reference to Pelagon. I believe, chronologically, his doppelganger appeared between Myus's death and Bellerophon's arrival.

    However, I must point out that you translate both "master" and "unifier" as Alaric. I'm not sure that's correct. After all, I don't recall Comana acting against him (though it would be an eventual consequence of their actions). Actually, he's explicitly referenced as the Wanderer in the first prophesy, so it's also possible that he's neither master nor unifier.

    As for the third prophesy, I really think that any attempts to interpret it are in vain.?I believe gandreas has said before that he has the plot of Cythera 2 already in mind, and I'm guessing that's what the third prophesy deals with. But it's set in the future, and the references are much more obscure than the first two and doesn't share references.



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    Land and Sea shall part, the middle can not hold.

    Seldane and Undine shall (de)part Cythera, the (island?) can not hold (together?)

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    Air and Fire shall wreack havoc, and Night shall fall.
    From the Night to the Next Dawn, what was One shall become Many.

    Sylph and Ignae shall wreak havoc, and (a dark age?) will fall.
    From the (dark age) to the Next (age), what was One shall become Many.

    I can think of two possibilities for the One becoming Many:

    a. Cythera will be broken into many smaller islands
    b. the Sylph and Ignae races will increase in numbers.

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    The World shall be sundered before the Coming of the Dawn.
    And shattered shall it be ever after.

    Fits with option a, above.

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    For the powers of the Four Directions shall form a Fifth.
    The Four parts of the Opener of Ways, Made One.
    This shall be the Key to the Fifth Element.
    Those that walk the Fifth Element will bring the Dawn.
    And from those Walkers will be brought a New Order.
    Only the Walkers of the New Order shall have the Unified Power.
    And those of the Four Directions shall be at their mercy.

    Heh, if I didn't know better, I'd think he was referring to the Ronin. I'm not sure we can draw any conclusions about those lines. I suspect they refer to something completely new, that we don't see in the first game.



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    I would say that "the Dead shall walk" is a dead-on reference to Pelagon. I believe, chronologically, his doppelganger appeared between Myus's death and Bellerophon's arrival.

    Probably accurate, I missed that. (Do you mean Canachus's death, by the way?)

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    However, I must point out that you translate both "master" and "unifier" as Alaric. I'm not sure that's correct. After all, I don't recall Comana acting against him (though it would be an eventual consequence of their actions). Actually, he's explicitly referenced as the Wanderer in the first prophesy, so it's also possible that he's neither master nor unifier.

    I believe that Comana was acting against Alaric himself or at least represented a threat to his authority. The Master might refer to Canachus, but I think that these two most likely apply to Alaric. I don't see why being the Wanderer before would prevent him from being either.

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    a. Cythera will be broken into many smaller islands
    b. the Sylph and Ignae races will increase in numbers.

    Another possibility (that occurred to me this morning) along line a (perhaps fitting in with the line about the void) is that Cythera will be sundered into many realities.

    a seems to be the most likely though.

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    QUOTE
    For the powers of the Four Directions shall form a Fifth.
    The Four parts of the Opener of Ways, Made One.
    This shall be the Key to the Fifth Element.
    Those that walk the Fifth Element will bring the Dawn.
    And from those Walkers will be brought a New Order.
    Only the Walkers of the New Order shall have the Unified Power.
    And those of the Four Directions shall be at their mercy.

    Heh, if I didn't know better, I'd think he was referring to the Ronin. I'm not sure we can draw any conclusions about those lines. I suspect they refer to something completely new, that we don't see in the first game.

    Probably, but I distinctly remember that the author of the Cypher manuscript says something along the lines of: "I have brought the humans here, being of the fifth element..."
    Of course, the manuscript is only a rough translation.

    Of course, this is all speculation on my part anyway.

    This post has been edited by Selax : 24 November 2005 - 02:36 PM



  • Selax, on Nov 25 2005, 07:32 AM, said:

    Another possibility (that occurred to me this morning) along line a (perhaps fitting in with the line about the void) is that Cythera will be sundered into many realities.
    View Post

    Curiously, that fits extremely well with one of the Ronin stories I planned (working title: Time's Apprentice) but haven't written (maybe someday, who knows.) That story would deal with the imbalance created by the destruction of the Tempus stone, one of three crystals governing and separating several different realities.



  • Oops, yes. Myus was the murderer, not the murderee.

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    I believe that Comana was acting against Alaric himself or at least represented a threat to his authority. The Master might refer to Canachus, but I think that these two most likely apply to Alaric. I don't see why being the Wanderer before would prevent him from being either.

    Being the Wanderer doesn't prevent Alaric from being Master/Unifier. However, the game does not mark the end of "the Age of Alaric." Quite the reverse, I'd say. On the other hand, the prophesy says that the Traitors "will not fail," and it would seem that, in actuality, they do. This is a bit mystifying, as Neleneus has predicted Bellerophon's arrival - is the prophesy perhaps incorrect?



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    However, the game does not mark the end of "the Age of Alaric." Quite the reverse, I'd say. On the other hand, the prophesy says that the Traitors "will not fail," and it would seem that, in actuality, they do. This is a bit mystifying, as Neleneus has predicted Bellerophon's arrival - is the prophesy perhaps incorrect?

    Maybe it's a prophecy of what would happen if Bellerophon failed?

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    Ye shall know the Signs of the Coming of the Second End.

    I think that I read this as "Second Age" by mistake when I first looked at it. I thought that the Second Age began at the end of the game and ended in the Third Prophecy. Now, that I notice this I am not sure what it means. Maybe it means "so passes" means something like "so happens" or "so comes"?



  • Just added a note to the end of the char info for Kronos, in light of this information.



  • Heh. Good to know it's useful (though speculation is still fun). Is it time to start up cythera.ambrosiasw.org/story/? ;)

    I don't know; it's weird. Note that the second prophesy ends with the passing of the great unifier, and the third prophesy begins with it. Obviously, there has been some time between the events of the first and the second, but the third appears immediately chained to the second.

    Maybe the third prophesy is contingent on the second, and by saving Alaric, this is the ultimate disaster we've averted? Or maybe Neleneus was uncertain of the way in which Alaric would fall, so he wrote two prophesies instead of one. That way, when Alaric's age finally passes, the third prophesy kicks in (even if Comana didn't succeed, as predicted in the second).

    That would be a somewhat depressing state of affairs; Bellerophon's actions have preserved Alaric for some time, but would ultimately have changed nothing.

    This post has been edited by Pallas Athene : 24 November 2005 - 10:29 PM



  • I seem to recall a line that said Alaric used almost the last of his power to bring Bellerophon to Cythera. Perhaps he was never going to regain it, and would pass soon after? I thought the cleansed Crolna restored him completely, though. Can anyone recall what was stated at the end?



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    I seem to recall a line that said Alaric used almost the last of his power to bring Bellerophon to Cythera. Perhaps he was never going to regain it, and would pass soon after? I thought the cleansed Crolna restored him completely, though. Can anyone recall what was stated at the end?

    I don't recall exactly, but I do believe that Alaric is fully cured.

    Here's something that just occured to me:

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    And so shall pass the Age of the Unifier.

    What if the unifier, instead of being Alaric, is actually a reference to Bellerophon. He leaves after the crolna is joined and used on Alaric, which is the fifth and final omen. I don't remember for certain, but I seem to recollect a point in the game where Bellerophon is called a uniter or some such thing. Can anyone shed some light on this?

    The only things that still don't fit at all are: The traitors not failing as the hidden had before them and the Hidden and the Traitors joining "to overcome the Master."

    It almost seems that Pallas was right about the prophecy being incorrect. Maybe Neleneus was unable to forsee which way the "balance would swing." But everytime I consider this, I find it unlikely. We must look back at the game as a game. Glenn wrote the prophecies and I doubt that he would have gone to the trouble to write them as incorrect, unless he wanted his game to have extremely realistic elements, which we can't rule out, of course.

    So let me see if I have what we know so far:
    The first prophecy speaks of the First Age. It is about the Tyrants rule and then the coming of Alaric to defeat, thus beginning the Second Age.

    The second prophecy is set in the game's time. It speaks of the coming of the end of the Second Age, Alaric's Age. All of the omens from the second prophecy seem to fit with the game, save a couple.

    The third prophecy speaks of the future, after the Unifier (whoever that may be) is gone. It is the End of the Second Age. It is interesting that it is not called the Third Age, but it would appear to be an age of utter chaos and pandemonium. Perhaps the time in between the next age?



  • Here's another thought: what if the Hidden aren't the Undine, but the Seldane?

    I'm just kind of curious about the reference to a 'Master', when the only being I can recall being called that was Omen's master, who was destroyed by Bellerophon with the help of the Seldane, among others.

    Not sure who would be the traitors in that case, though.



  • Hmm, that's a good point. Super Comana bros are definitely the sons, but they aren't necessarily the Traitors. The notion that the Seldane are the Hidden, though, has some merit; that would make the Traitors the Mages, of whom Charax assists you in destroying Omen's master. Though... no, it's not possible. The Seldane weren't guided by anyone (3-4).

    Also, the First Prophesy doesn't speak of the Unifier. It would seem a bit odd for the intervening period between the second and the third as the "Age of the Unifier" if the Unifier didn't arrive until the end. It might well be that the Unifier is Jhiaxus or Jinrai; their unity is perhaps one of the most unique things in Cythera.

    Wait a second... I'm trying to remember what Omen says, and now that I think of it, I don't recall him ever speaking favourably of the Undine. Perhaps the Master - Omen's master - is the author of the Cypher manuscript, the first being of the fifth element. Through assuming Alaric's powers, he would have been above both land and sea.

    Of course, that's a bit of a stretch. The game is supposed to be about east vs. west, not about and unseen third direction :)



  • I am sorry to revive a somewhat old topic, but I came across this today and just wanted to give my view of the Third Prophesy.

    "And in the End of the Second Age, the Great Unifier shall pass."
    My first guess is that this is an overview jumping ahead of the rest of the prophesy, but then the second verse doesn't fit. Discarding that, I don't know what the Great Unifier would be (perhaps the Crolna?)

    "Upon this leaving, shall chaos and disaster come."

    "Land and Sea shall part, the middle can not hold."
    The Seldane and Undine aren't getting along anymore, they've lost their "middle ground".

    "Air and Fire shall wreack havoc, and Night shall fall."
    Ursylph and Ignae aren't helping matters, and a dark period begins.

    "From the Night to the Next Dawn, what was One shall become Many."
    (Overview) Before the dark period ends, humans begin having kids and popping up everywhere.

    "The Bird of Two will bemoan his fate, and that of the Third."
    Umm. . . .

    "The World shall be sundered before the Coming of the Dawn. / And shattered shall it be ever after."
    Before the Next Dawn, the elements begin their dislike for each other and never make up.

    "The void shall not keep the parts of the Whole."
    No one element has control anymore. (Perhaps control over the Crolna?)

    "For the powers of the Four Directions shall form a Fifth."
    Humans arrive (that is, the Next Dawn hasn't come about yet).

    "The Four parts of the Opener of Ways, Made One."
    Crolna's put together.

    "This shall be the Key to the Fifth Element."
    The Crolna's the key to the humans' survival.

    "Those that walk the Fifth Element will bring the Dawn."
    Humans will bring the long-anticipated Next Dawn.

    "And from those Walkers will be brought a New Order."
    I'd guess that this just means that humans become more organized (mages especially), but perhaps this refers to Alaric's system?

    "Only the Walkers of the New Order shall have the Unified Power."
    Humans now have the power. (Or maybe the Crolna? lol)

    "And those of the Four Directions shall be at their mercy."
    The humans have the power to sway the balance, therefore the elements are at their mercy.

    That's what I've always thought at least. Now that I've heard all these theories that it takes place in the future I may change my view, lol.



  • I think the unifier is Bellerophon. For he unified the crolna, and probably dies in the third prophecy. As for the master, I have no idea.


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