Omen's little reward



  • Omen is an Undine, the elemental race of water is warring against the Seldane, the elemental race of earth. The humans are either the fifth element, none of the elements, or a mix of all of the elements. If one of the elements were to claim the humans as their own, they would destroy all of the other elements, and destroy the reality of Cythera (in the book about the Cipher manuscript you read), and destroy nearby realities as well. Only by healing Alaric can you prevent this from happening, for he sits in the balance between east and west, earth and water, seldane and undine. Get all of that?

    I don't get the Chimera part. I know that it's the name of a really cool plug-in for Myth II, that's it. Anyone who has read the Cipher Manuscript get that "The Dr. E. W." part that the translator didn't understand? That manuscript really gives you a mouthload to think about if you've played the game and beaten it already.

    The Undine can also shift shapes. The sequel of Cythera (I've got a feeling that it will definitely come) will involve the Undine once more, by a dead hint during the game.

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    I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I preach to.

    (This message has been edited by glaive6 (edited 02-14-2000).)



  • YOU DON'T GET CHIMERA?!?!?!?
    sigh...
    the chimera is a legendary animal, with 3 heads of varius animals (goat, dog, bear?), wings (optional), the tail of a snake except that the tail ends with the snake's head.
    Now I see a patern, but it probably wasn't meant to be there. Notice that this totals to 4 heads.
    This reminds me of how some people here beetovens fifth and say, "Hey that's (so and so) cartoon music!"

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    Ah! Timon! You're dead!
    No I'm not.
    Yes you are! Just look!
    Oh! So I am!



  • the chimera is a legendary animal

    Chimera was also a project I worked on years ago (it was primarily an isometric view RPG, but it also had first person, a graphical view sort of like Shadowgate/etc..., and a large outdoor overhead map view - multi-headed beast = multiple views, get it?). There were too many problems with this multiple view approach to work successfully (like you could use only certain items/spells in certain views and not in others) I had just begun working on what would eventually become Delver when Andrew dropped me a note saying "So what's going on with Chimera..."

    That being said, some of the underlying plot from that project is mentioned carried over into Cythera. Also, the quote from the Cipher Ms was "Th L Dr W".

    If you really want hints about a sequel, read all three of the Prophesies of Neleneus.

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    Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to Know...



  • I've read all three. The second talks about what is happening in Cythera, but I never understood the third. Sounds like it's gonna be messy, though. Does the sequel change from the third prophecy, in that the Age of the Unifier did NOT pass? I guess it probably does pass while you were gone, because of the eternal struggle between the elements, catching the humans in the middle. Sigh... I gotta read over these things again...

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    If it was raining brains, he wouldn't even get wet

    (This message has been edited by glaive6 (edited 02-15-2000).)



  • Sorry for bumping an ancient thread (in Internet time, truly ancient - over ten years old!), but I found it to be very interesting and with some insight from Glenn Andreas as well.

    He mentions that the Prophesies of Neleneus hints toward the continuation of the Cythera story, which is fascinating. But has anybody been able to truly understand what that book means?

    It is here:

    _First Prophesy

    ...

    The day of the Tyrants shall be numbered,

    And it shall end with a new order.

    The exiles shall return,

    And with them, a new leader.

    The people shall rejoice,

    And Six of them shall rise.

    When the Voice of a God speaks

    So shall be the first sign.

    That which was Lost shall try to return,

    But now is not the time for that to be.

    The Voice must be destroyed,

    For it speaks not the truth.

    So shall the last act of the Tyrant be,

    Before the Wanderer comes.

    With the guidance of a fool,

    So shall a new Age begin.

    Second Prophesy

    ...

    Ye shall know the Signs of the Coming of the Second End.

    They shall be plague, violence, and treachery.

    The Traitors shall be guided as the Hidden were before them.

    The Traitors shall not, however, fail as the Hidden.

    Look ye, then, for the Omens Five, Proof of the End of the Age.

    Sons shall slay fathers, in a game of Power. So is the first Omen.

    The Seas shall rise, and the Dead shall walk. This is the second Omen.

    A Stranger shall come, and with him Nightmares. This is the third Omen.

    The Hidden joining the Traitors, to overcome the Master. This is the fourth Omen.

    That which was sundered to four shall be joined, Opener of Ways. This is the fifth Omen.

    Against these five Omens, none can stand.

    And so shall pass the Age of the Unifier.

    Third Prophesy

    ...

    And in the End of the Second Age, the Great Unifier shall pass.

    Upon this leaving, shall chaos and disaster come.

    Land and Sea shall part, the middle can not hold.

    Air and Fire shall wreack havoc, and Night shall fall.

    From the Night to the Next Dawn, what was One shall become Many.

    The Bird of Two will bemoan his fate, and that of the Third.

    The World shall be sundered before the Coming of the Dawn.

    And shattered shall it be ever after.

    The void shall not keep the parts of the Whole,

    For the powers of the Four Directions shall form a Fifth.

    The Four parts of the Opener of Ways, Made One.

    This shall be the Key to the Fifth Element.

    Those that walk the Fifth Element will Bring the Dawn.

    And from those Walkers will be brought a New Order.

    Only the Walkers of the New Order shall have the Unified Power,

    And those of the Four Directions shall be at their mercy._

    Taken from this website: http://sfiera.net/~s...hera/books.html



  • @seldane_bot, on 03 February 2011 - 07:25 AM, said in Omen's little reward:

    Sorry for bumping an ancient thread (in Internet time, truly ancient - over ten years old!), but I found it to be very interesting and with some insight from Glenn Andreas as well.

    He mentions that the Prophesies of Neleneus hints toward the continuation of the Cythera story, which is fascinating. But has anybody been able to truly understand what that book means?

    The first two are rather clear, the first being about Alaric and the second about the events immediately before the game (such as the Comana brothers killing Canachus, Tavara creating undead/skeletons/liches/etc., and the crolna being split). The third, however, is indeed interesting and seems to be the relevant one to the sequel.

    I’m going to take a wild guess that “the Great Unifier shall pass” refers to Alaric’s death, or perhaps Bellerophon leaving. The middle section seems to be the most cryptic, and the last few lines seem to lay out the setup for the sequel. The stuff about Air and Fire wreaking havoc seems to confirm the suggestion that UrSylph and Ignae really aren’t as idle, detached, and mundane as they appear to be in-game.

    Interesting find, Seldane, even if it is the most impressive gravedig I have ever seen. ;)

    This post has been edited by Buzzzzy : 03 February 2011 - 08:24 AM



  • We discussed it some in another topic.



  • I was going to post that link, but Fiery beat me to it!
    I did read that thread though, & I put together a translation of the third prophecy (that one is the most interesting, I think, because it tells us about Cythera II) from my favourites of other people's ideas and one or two of my own:

    In the end of {the time the game took place), Bellerophon will go home.
    When he does so, the barrier between Cythera & the void will be destroyed. (See Cipher Manuscript)
    The Undine & Seldane will be forced out into the void, & Cythera will not be able to hold together.
    UrSylph and Ignae will be fighting again. ("If two of the five are lost, there are then but three" ~Magpie)
    During these dark times, the island of Cythera will be torn apart.
    Magpie will be emo about his & Alaric's fates (Being sucked into the void, I'm guessing)
    Cythera will be torn apart,
    It will never be repaired
    The void won't keep the Undine & Seldane
    The powers of the Crolna will make the humans into a fifth element.
    The four parts of the Crolna (one shard originally from each element?) are made one,
    That's the power the humans hold.
    Those good humans will rescue the Undine and Seldane from the void, thus stabilizing Cythera,
    And they will organize a new ruling system.
    Only those humans will have access to the Crolna.
    And they will be more powerful than the Undine, Seldane, Sylphs, and Ignae.

    We should totally have a Cythera book club, where we discuss a different book in the game each week! : ****D



  • Hm sounds likes like chrono cross.

    I see it as:

    Cythera 1: you've played it

    Cythera 2: Takes place directly after the second prophecy, where Alaric or someone summons the hero in their dying moment and explains the situation vaguely. The hero then 'escapes' to some where and after some time comes into contact with a resistance (or some force in opposition of the current government) group associated with 'the fifth element.'

    The hero discovers that the island of Cythera has split into many islands (possibly held together by the ocean or the void, or possibly that that Cythera has split into separate pieces across the void, and that the main powers now are elementals with (maybe) the houses that allied with them as the managment for the human slave labor.

    So now the Hero starts to learn magic and walk down the path to freeing Cythera and bringing about a new age.

    Edit: oh there's a second page.

    Heh, 453, your set up seems the coolest I've seen, though if you could work that into a video game... :p

    This post has been edited by Two Jacks : 03 February 2011 - 11:04 PM



  • The prophecy seems to outline the setup of Cythera 2 rather than any actual events that take place in it. Who is the character in Cythera 2 supposed to be anyway? It’s difficult to tell exactly where gandreas was going with this, although it is interesting to think about.



  • @two-jacks_bot, on 03 February 2011 - 11:00 PM, said in Omen's little reward:

    ... if you could work that into a video game... :p

    View PostSeldane, on 03 February 2011 - 10:36 AM, said:

    (Gandreas said,)
    (The sequel also requires a new engine, since a certain critical "feature" of the world isn't possible with the current one, and, as far as I know, has never been done in any other CRPG ).

    Emphasis added.



  • CRPG means computer role playing game right?

    Chrono Cross was for playstation and I wasn't working cythera into its story line, that part was purely based off what I read in the topic.

    I'd like to soeculate on that feature though, so thanks for bringing it up.

    He says it's a feature 'of the world' so from that I can:
    assume he means the world map.
    assume he means the environment the player is in.

    If it's the world map then I can guess he means:
    Changing world maps, i.e. moving around different ones.
    Having an affect on it, i.e. physically seeing changes made to the world that are results of your actions.

    If it's the environment, then it plays into my last possibility for the map. It would make sense if there's a power struggle in the game for power (what with elementals and humans all at each others' throats).



  • @two-jacks_bot, on 04 February 2011 - 07:47 PM, said in Omen's little reward:

    CRPG means computer role playing game right?

    He says it's a feature 'of the world' so from that I can:
    assume he means the world map.
    assume he means the environment the player is in.

    Yeah, CRPG = computer role playing game. Interesting soeculating (:p), though I doubt that “of the world” refers to the world map. If it does however, the ideas that gandreas outlined as being part of his previous project Chimera might be relevant, he did say some parts of it carried over into Cythera.



  • My interpretation of the prophecy is quite similar to 453's, although I'm inclined to suspect the Unifier refers to Alaric. Bellerophon is most likely the Stranger instead.

    I'm not sure about the Crolna or the Void. I'm inclined to suspect that Cythera will be fragmented into several different realities when the Barriers are further distorted by the balance being lost. Humans are specified as being of the Fifth Element in the Cipher Manuscript. I think the Crolna is the key to unlocking this power in the humans, but I'm not sure if they need it afterward.



  • This is not entirely relevant, but the Timeflux book’s references to the sea and Omen’s line “we are the sea, and time is ours to command” seems to suggest that the Undine might be able to alter time or time travel. I’m wondering if there’s a relation between that and the ability to cross the void.



  • I do think that Bellerophon is the Stranger, but also I think Alaric is the Wanderer and probably even the Master. So I don't see why Bellerophon can't be the Unifier. He unified the Crolna anyway. It says that after the Unifier leaves, chaos and disaster come, which (if it refers to Bellerophon) fits into this gandreas quote: "The sequel is set "a ways" in the future from the first - and its critical that your character leave for certain key events to happen. Basically, the Undine have lost their most powerful artifact to the hands of their most hated enemy, who now has the opportunity to learn to use it and transcend even his current ability. And the sequel is set after that is "resolved"."
    I admit that Alaric seems to fit as the Unifier too, but if it is him, it sounds like he dies and then chaos and disaster come. I personally think Bellerophon is the more likely candidate for Unifier.

    I wrote that Cythera fragmented within its Reality, but I'm not sure and I think maybe it's referring to the Cythera reality fragmenting. In this case, "the void won't keep the parts of the whole" probably refers to the Cythera fragments, rather than the Seldane and Undine as I originally thought.



  • I'm inclined to agree that Alaric is the Wanderer and probably the Master. I had always considered Alaric the likely candidate since he unifies Cythera (and has done so for a great many years), as well as being part of the balance between land and sea; however, if Unifier refers to Bellerophon's actions in reuniting the Crolna, then he is also a likely candidate.

    I don't think that Alaric would have to die for the the Unifier to "pass." It might be that he disappears or is lost to the Void, as you suggested.

    I find the second prophecy's discussion of the Hidden and the Traitors to be interesting. Since it mentions both being guided in the same manner, I have always assume that they refer to the Cult of Scylla (Tavara and such) and the House of Comana respectively. Of course, this doesn't explain how the Traitors do not fail since Comana seems beaten. This would also suggest the two join forces at some point but this does not seem to occur in the game. An alternative interpretation is that Hidden refers to the Undine, but this leads one to wonder: who is doing the guiding?

    Anyone else have any opinions on these groups?



  • I really think the Hidden means the Undine. In the book "Report on the Hidden Chiefs and the Cult of Scylla," it sounds like the Hidden Chiefs are undine, and Inner Brotherhood (Tavara & the other now-liches) were the "inner circle" who were the only ones aware of the Hidden Chiefs. I just bring that up because it's another instance of Undine being referred to as "Hidden."

    The Undine are guided - they have a Master Undine, who is the dude impersonating Pelagon in the game, and who later corrupts the Crolna.

    I also believe the Traitors are the Comana brothers & maybe their army of ruffians. Perhaps them not failing refers to the fact that they took over Cademia?



  • I don't think Anissa ever says this specifically in the game, but in the hintbook she writes that the expedition that went to Abydos after it was destroyed reported that it looked as though a giant wave had washed it away. I don't think anyone's ever doubted that the Undine destroyed Abydos; I only bring this up because the report on the hidden chiefs says that the mages had learned that the Hidden Chiefs had a connection to lost Abydos. In my opinion, the Hidden Chiefs are almost undoubtedly the Undine. Tavara may be included in the group, but if so, only because of his apparent alliance with the Undine.

    But, I still don't get the line in the second prophesy about the Hidden being guided. I'm not sure it makes sense to say that a head Undine would count as the Master necessarily. The rest would make sense that the Hidden are the Undine, specifically the part about the Hidden joining the Traitors, because we know that Comana allies with the Undine. I wonder if the "Hidden Chiefs" and the "Hidden" could refer to different groups? (Though, probably not likely)



  • My assumption is that when it says the Hidden and Traitors are guided, it refers to fake-Pelagon. However, when it says "the Hidden joining the Traitors to overcome the Master," I believe it is referring to overcoming Alaric.


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